&#9;TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION

&#9;UWC HEARING - DAY 2 - TUESDAY 6 AUGUST 1996



CASE NO:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;CT/00804

VICTIM:&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;SIBULELO GLADSTONE PILISO [son]

NATURE OF VIOLENCE:&#9;&#9;SHOT AND KILLED BY POLICE

TESTIMONIES FROM:&#9;&#9;SIGNORIA DYANTYI PILISO

&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;&#9;KAYA SHEPHARD NDEVU



COMMISSIONER: And Ms Piliso as well.

SIGNORIA DYANTYI PILISO&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states

KAYA SHEPHARD NDEVU&#9;&#9;Duly sworn states

COMMISSIONER: Mary Burton will facilitate your evidence, I hand over to her.

MS BURTON: Thank you, good afternoon to both of you. --- Good afternoon.

&#9;Before you begin, just for the sake of the people who are in the hall who might not be able to hear you speaking in Xhosa. Let me just tell everybody what you are coming to tell us. The story is of the death, the shooting to death of Sibulelo Piliso who is the son of Mr Piliso at the end of 1990 in Khayelitsha. And Mr Ndevu was both a witness to that shooting and was himself injured by the - by shooting in the same incident. So they are now going to tell us about that, Mr Ndevu will you start and tell us about what happened on that day.

KAYA SHEPHARD NDEVU: On the 13th in 1990 I was coming from work and it was at about eight and when I got home, Sibulelo Piliso came to my house because I had called him in connection with a job because there was a vacancy. So - Sibulelo came and knocked and went into the house. And he said he is responding to my call, I said I had asked him to come to me in Town, but he said he could not, because he did not have money. So I gave him R10-00 to go and get chance so as to get R5-00 from the R10-00. Whilst I was still sitting there we heard a sound on top of the house and I stood up and went to the door and opened the door. I saw two men who [indistinct]] towards the house. One of them spoke as he was appearing and asked we were burning their houses. But before I could answer he then shot me on the stomach and I fell down. And I had again heard some noise because I was shouting that people should come to our rescue, because they were shooting us. They kept on shooting, I heard the sound with the guns, and I could hear another sound then they were shooting Subelelo and they shot him to death. That was the last I can recall. Because I was lying there crying. So that is what happened. When I gained consciouness party in Khayelitsha Hospital, in Khayelitsha, I wasn't aware what had happened to Subelelo. Then I was transferred to Groote Schuur Hospital and then I was - I had to undergo an operation. It took me days to recover and to be conscious of the people around me, then I don't know what actually happened thereafter. What I actually saw was when I regained consciousness was to see a certain woman that has a child with me, who had visited me and had heard news that I had died, but later learnt to know that I was still alive, but I was in hospital. Then I explained to her that these two people came and they threw something on the roof of the house and I opened the door to find out who were the people. These were people I knew, and then they started shooting, that was all. So that's the end. So I was in hospital for some time and no police came to me whilst I was there. I was in hospital for quite some time and discharged in 1992 because I kept on going back being discharged, or being admitted. I have got three operations, one is here in the stomach, two of them and then on the other side of - they had to take out a kidney because it was damaged and I was ultimately discharged in 1994. Whilst I was - I was being admitted and discharged, I went to [indistinct] and to see a lawyer and to [indistinct] a claim. I waited until - until I had to pursue the case and I went to Wynberg where they investigated to try and get the people who had trying to kill us. And these people were not, were found not guilty. I don't know the reason for that, because when they were going to give the verdict, they asked us to go outside. When I asked the prosecutor why, they said the reason why this person was not found guilty was that I had said there were two of them and yet here in Court only one made an appearance. So that was the main reason therefore why this person was not found guilty. The I said but there are two names written down and I am not a policeman to go and fetch the second one, who's name has been mentioned and I was asking why they wouldn't go and fetch the other second person. So the prosecutor could not answer. Then I said, I asked them if I was to be the one to go and fetch them, I said to them but I am not a policeman and there are policeman to do that job. So I don't know what I was expected to do. So that's the end of my explanation.

&#9;Thank you Mr Ndevu, do you - do you remember the name of the lawyer that you went to. --- Yes I still remember I know his name is Motana [indistinct]

&#9;Thank you very much, we can - we can follow that up, now [intervention]

--- Can I just say that he gave me the statements because I had demanded for statements from him and so these were given to me. I took the statements because I wasn't aware how to approach the Commission. So I went to Minister Yengeni en gave the statements to him so that he could present these to the Truth Commission and for the Truth Commission to look into how this - the claim was done by the lawyer. So I kept on going to his office and I did not find him up till now I haven't found him.

&#9;Thank you - thank you very much. I wonder if you would then pass the microphone to Ms Piliso.

SIGNORIA DYANTYI PILISO:

MS BURTON: Ms Piliso you heard the story that Mr Ndevu told is there something more that you want to tell us. --- Yes there is, the time we went to Court and we felt dissatisfied, there was a special branch who was involved in this case. Who said we should not worry because there could be a review of this case later. He had made Photostats at the time, there was the death - before their bodies were taken away by the police.

&#9;So you still feel that you don't - you haven't been fully satisfied by the legal process? --- No I was dissatisfied.

&#9;We will - we will see what can be done to follow up and see if there is more that can be discovered which might help you with a claim. But I think it would be helpful for us to know what could have caused this to happen. Was their tension and conflict between Sibulelo and other people in the community, why should this have happened. --- There was no conflict between these people and Sibulelo. But on the other hand I can say there was because there was a fight between ANC and ME there was a car that had been burnt, which [indistinct] to the Council so the police had said people should not move at night. But it so happened therefor that they were shot in the house, they had not gone out of the house. And the person that I referred to was working in an office there.

&#9;In the Council. --- Yes.

&#9;That's the Llingelethu West Council. --- In Llingelethu West Council.

&#9;All right and Sibulelo was he known to be an active member of the ANC or any other organization? --- All of us as blacks we were ANC supporters as we are still supporting the ANC presently.

&#9;Thank you, I have no more questions at the moment.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, any questions? We thank both of you as the Commission and we are suppose to investigate and find out the truth and get deep into it. We are therefore going to make our best efforts to - to get what actually happened and also to find out why this matter was not perused, what actually happened. We therefore thank you.



















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